I think he’s the best place to to to to beat Pier PV who as I’ve said publicly is a fake the Prime Minister has a deep love for this country life is hard for Canadians right now he understands that none of the the the members of parliament’s or ministers that I’ve spoken to have told me that they they think that the Prime Minister should go cabinet ministers are publicly supporting the Prime Minister after voters rejected the Liberals in the Toronto St Paul’s byelection and while the Liberals deal with internal Fallout from that another external challenge has emerged Alberta Premier Daniel Smith says her Province will opt out of the new federal dental care plan in a letter to the Prime Minister Smith writes Healthcare planning and delivery is an area of provincial jurisdiction and the new federal plan infringes upon this exclusive jurisdiction for more on this I’m joined Now by federal minister of Health Mark Holland Minister welcome back to the show thanks for having me David I want to get to the Alberta Dental issue in a second but first I need to ask you about the byelection in in Toronto St Paul’s I’ve been talking to a lot of members of your caucus right now and they are absolutely rattled by this outcome they think the government needs to make some major changes you’re a 905 MP how are you taking what happened in this by election on Monday night well look I think it was disappointing uh you know I knocked on doors there we knew it was going to be tight and I think lesli’s phenomenal so I was disappointed but David you know I’ve been around a long time I I’ve seen uh all kinds of different byelections I I’m very careful not to read a lot into an individual result I think uh you know you we really need to make sure that the takeaway here is that uh we work all the much harder uh that we focus all that much more on the people uh in this country who are having a difficult time these are very difficult times globally people are struggling uh and they want a government that is doing everything humanly possibly to help them and so for me it means focusing that much harder on making sure we get people dental care that we get people diabetes M medication that we get people contraceptives that we continue the really positive good things that we’re doing in our health system so I think we’re we’re building a really great story in a very turbulent world for Canada’s leadership don’t think anybody would want to trade Canada’s position right now with any other country in the world but it’s it’s a tough time to be a human being and certainly that’s uh what you heard at doors right you said you’ve been around a long time and that can be an asset in politics but it can also be a liability politics right because people get to the point where they just want change and they’re not listening anymore the the consensus I hear from talking to Liberal MPS is and liberal staffers is something needs to change is that is that message is it staff is it the prime minister is it the cabinet what do you need to do to change because just working harder doesn’t seem like it’ll necessarily get it done well I think there’s there’s one thing Canadians want and that is a government that that is only focused on their betterment and well-being and uh so I think I think the the answer is very simple to wake up every morning and give your absolute best uh and put in every ounce of effort you have um to making the country uh a better place and making sure that there’s Better Health outcomes and that people have the services and supports they need to get through difficult times there’s nobody popular as an incumbent government right now it’s a difficult time to govern uh but as the dawn breaks in the world uh there will be the people who just hold mirrors to what’s wrong and broken and and push into people’s pain and try to profit from it and though there there’ll be those people sha and I and I’m very proud to serve along with a prime minister and a caucus that’s focused on Solutions um and I think as the dust settles on that over the next 16 months uh people are going to see that that you know we have not stopped not a second whether or not it was through the pandemic or all the T turmoil that came after it focusing on people and making their lives better and I think there that’s all there should be and if there’s somebody another party that can demonstrate they that they’re in not just trying to play politics or criticize things but they have a better plan for the country um then you know let them let them put that forward but right now we’ve seen no plan right all we’ve seen is criticism all we’ve seen is at finger pointing so congratulations you know like congratulations you’re popular in in in pointing out flaws but that’s the easy part you know one of the things I’ve seen since 2004 David is that when rubber hits Road and it’s time to put Solutions forward then you suddenly have to be examined on what you actually are going to do for people but they they were examined on Monday weren’t they they they were examined on Monday in Toronto St Paul well I mean I mean look look the walls of Fortress what did they do they won Toronto St Paul’s they they breach Fortress Toronto like that matters though Minister that matters I mean come on what did they do what did the conservatives do they came in and they said everything that’s wrong in the world no because people are upset for sure and that it’s at a byelection where there is no consequence to flipping a SE and right now who’s happy about the world like it’s tough out there I don’t care you go to any country I don’t care where you go these are difficult difficult times people are frustrated with that so yeah congratulations to the conservatives they got people to agree that the world is tough right now what did they offer in way of Solutions in a byelection you don’t have to do that you don’t have to tell people how you’re going to govern differently or what Solutions are going to do you know I’m talking yesterday here I was talking with um uh with a dental hygienist um and and she was saying to me like what a difference it’s making for people to be able to get dental care you know people showing up to uh somebody not taking their family photographs for years because they were embarrassed of their smile suddenly being able to take a picture with their family and be proud of it like that’s what’s going to be at stake in 16 months not some not some comment about you know what’s wrong with the world I get that that frustration is important but to have a conversation about does a diabetes patient deserve diabetes medication but do you think you’re being a bit too dismissive of this result I mean but but don’t you think you’re being a bit too like this is a byelection the Prime Minister engineered by shuffling Carolyn Bennett out of cabinet appointing her to Denmark and and you threw everything at it as a party and lost I mean that sends a strong message Carn Bennett David Carolyn Bennett for 26 years served this country with extraordinary up Plum and there’s no such thing as a safe seat there shouldn’t be there is Carolyn Bennett earned that the support of that rioting through extraordinary work and I got to work with her and I was so proud to do it but you know what I’m saying is is that when you get into a real election you’re into real choices right and Canadians are going to have to look not just about an expression of frustration I get that and that’s fair and and I think it’s important for us to hear that and to redouble our efforts to serve them but in 16 months time the real choices get made do you choose an angry leader who just points out the problems of the world and has no Solutions who amplifies everybody’s anger who points out everything that’s wrong and he’s a master of it I give it to him nobody points out what’s wrong in the world better than him the problem is all you need is Google to do that what are your Solutions how are you going to make it better how are you going to explain to seniors that you’re going to take away their dental care how are you going to explain to diabetes patients that you’re going to take away their diabetes medication that’s going to be the conversation but in the meantime we got to get the job done we got to serve Canadians and that’s what I’m squarely focused on making sure that right now we have 200,000 seniors got dental care I want to make sure it’s every country every senior in this country well let’s talk about that because Alberta is saying they don’t want to opt into this program they say it duplicates what they already do they’ve written a letter to the Prime Minister say from Daniel Smith saying they don’t want part of that program the Alberta Dental Association roughly 60 to 70% of their dentists haven’t signed up and they say it’s just too cumbersome and too complicated so so how do you deliver Dental to Alberta when the premier and the Dental Association says it’s it’s not for them well let’s put it in the opposite term uh two months ago uh there were zero uh dentists participating and there were no seniors getting service now 200,000 seniors across the country are getting Service as you referenc there in just two months about 40% of dentists in Alberta are signed up to this program so if Premier Smith says she she doesn’t like it because it’s provincial jurisdiction well with all due respect these are people they didn’t cover these are people who weren’t getting service these are people who were left to wind up in emergency rooms with preventable illnesses I’m all for working with provinces I mean if if Alberta wants to take it over as long as it’s of the same quality and there’s no interruption of service I we’re not going to give them more money than it’s costing for us to administer it but you know like I think this is politics you know and it’s too bad because this is about um you know people’s well-being like I I you know talking about um I was talking to a dental student you know the name Ryland talking about a situation somebody couldn’t get dental care then access in their mouth so painful they were Garling with gasoline this is Canada yeah I don’t care like you figure out the jurisdiction like we got to get care to people so we’re focused on but Daniel Smith is adopting a position repeatedly so not un like what we see from premier of Quebec that we run our own program give us the money we’ll opt out and we’ll use it for this are you prepared to do that with Alberta you’re prepared to give them the cash and let them expand program uh coverage as the letter suggests for low-income people well I’m absolutely willing to work with delber and I think that the question here is do we make sure that the standard of qu care is at a minimum as good as we’re delivering it and if they can do it better then I want to work with them I’m not looking for fights uh you know we’re looking for Solutions but it seems to me that you know picking this the way of going about it seems to be trolling for uh for conflict and I don’t think that’s helpful uh I’ve said right from the beginning on this we got an incredibly successful program providers are loving it signing up in droves uh they’re finding it easier to use than private insurance they finding it far easier to use than any provincial program they participated in so you know it’s it’s great news it’s great news for albertans a great news for all Canadians now if they want to work with us to do it even better uh you know I’m all for it like I think that’s what people want to see in healthcare and I and I have to say and Alberta Adriana lrange is great she and I have were able to work through an aging with dignity agreement we’re able to work through an agreement on working together to get more doctors and nurses for Alberta like we’re getting things done that’s what I want to do and I think that’s what people want to see they want to see results they want to see a focus on them not a focus on politics so I would say to Premier Smith work with us you know don’t seek the conflict seek the solution okay one one last question to focus on politics you you said the real choice is going to be about 16 months from now when we get to the next election and that’s where real change is on the table are you convinced at this point in time that it’s going to be Justin Trudeau leading your party into that next election do you think he stays do you think he should stay I think should say I think this is a man who through the pandemic led us through incredibly dark times times of incredible anxiety in this country I’ve watched him day out day in day out uh accept incredible poundings and criticism and wake up with such optimism and belief in this country I’ve watched him care so deeply about service and uh and and in the best interest of this country I’m so proud to serve alongside Justin Trudeau and uh I’m extremely excited to litigate the arguments that I’m just talking about 16 months from now because I think that it’s going to be one of the most consequential decisions in Canadian history what kind of Canada do we want what kind of future do we want for our country and I think Justin Trudeau is absolutely the person to lead our party Minister Mark Holland thank you so much for your time good to speak you sir thanks so much Ste all right we’re going to check the political pulse with our panel of insiders so I hope got some sleep after our byelection show on Monday night Greg mcran is a former liberal ministerial staffer Melanie re is a former director of communications for the federal NDP and Fred delori well he is a former national campaign manager for the conservative party you all look well rested gang after the marathon on Monday uh Greg let’s start with you um I’ve been talking to a lot of liberals who are pretty upset I even had one liberal say to me they’re almost glad Toronto St Paul’s happened this way so the pmo can get the message on the need to change what what are you hearing right now what does the pmo and the staff the Prime Minister need to do to calm things down well please don’t read into it that I evacuated out ofwa come to beloved hellofax uh because of that but uh I I’m I’m not surprised I mean for me what the byelection does is it crystallizes every big worry that liberals have had um you can tell yourself that um it’s not as bad when you lose an election in Durham a by-election in Durham where you were the liberal party was never strong but it’s really hard to make that case in Toronto St Paul’s and there were a lot of you know issues in the leadup uh like even the uh amount of time before the bi-election was actually um called which made me suspect that they were not getting the type of candidates um multiple candidates that they were interested in but this is a real world example that um of how people are reacting to your message um it’s evidence and I I like Minister Holland’s feistiness I want to see it more about other issues instead of you know we the the liberal parties get uh Liberal Party gets accused of a lot of both preachiness um but on this one I don’t think we can mistake the message and and I think the other part of this is what’s coming out now is things that people have been trying to say for a long time around the way liberals communicate and the preachiness uh and The Virtue signaling um you know there is a time for that there was a time for that I don’t suspect that it’s now I look to somebody like Minister Mark Miller who told everyone to give their head a shake that is the way people should be should be thinking about this reacting to this and that’s the language that should be used if you really want to do everything you can to win the next election right so so Mel one of the things we’re hearing now from a lot of MPS is that they want a national Caucus meeting um because they want to be able to talk about this and they felt they’ve had these before even by Zoom but they’re not scheduled to meet as a group until Nimo later this year uh is what they’re saying to me and they say if we wait that long it’s going to be too late as how do you think the leadership group of the party needs to respond to this totally I think um you know we all talked about how the Prime Minister wants to stay and and the team around the prime minister is saying that he’s going to stay and they’re you know doing the plans as they would going to the next election but if you’ve got a caucus that is um worried they’re not going to win their seeds you got to bring your people together you got to bring your people together you gotta you got to calm the storm a little bit and you have to reassure them that you have heard uh what folks have said to you in Toronto this week and that you’re doing differently because uh if if you’re not bringing your people together you’re going to have every one of these folks who are worried about winning their seeds out in the news talking to journalists whether on background you know or or publicly to say here’s why he needs to step down here’s what he needs to do if you are not um calming the waters those folks are it’s going to be like a bit of a mutiny so so I don’t understand we’re not going to meet until um later in the fall that seems just totally bananas to me as somebody who used to do management um as it relates to you know how how the team around the prime minister is is handling this or or taking this or maybe next steps what we saw just now with your interview with Minister Holland I to to Greg’s Point appreciate the Feist us appreciate the fight we haven’t really seen the Liberals almost like you know ready to fight so that’s good but the the message of like oh what is this who cares it’s a it’s a contest by elction it’s not a result that matters that is just more of the same not real realizing that people are not connecting with what you’re saying and you’re just not going to fix it and just double down is just going to make that that bigger it’s not going to close things off so so Fred I’m not sure if you have much experience with a jittery caucus after a disappointing election result having work for Mr ool but but it feels like what what’s happening now I don’t know if it’s quite to that level but I’m hearing about like text chains and side conversations and group chats and meetings between Regional conques City conques and they’re anxious in a way they haven’t been because until Toronto St Paul’s the polls are kind of theoretical and now it’s real it’s very real and they should be very concerned about it and I understand where the liberal caucus is uh perturbed about what’s happening but at the end of the day it’s not about bringing in caucus and getting ideas from them Trudeau and his senior team need to map out a true plan uh into how they get back into this uh and that’s what’s missing um if you bring caucus in right now all it’s going to be is a lot of uh pitchforks and angry people um and I don’t think you’ll get anything productive from that I they do need to have a Caucus meeting at some point this summer you can’t wait until the fall that is way too long to let this uh to let this sit but what trudo needs to do honestly sit down with four or five of his top people it’s not 10 people it’s not 20 it’s four or five make sure they have the polling the research go through it and write that narrative that I’ve been talking about for a year now that’s been missing I know they’re doing these side projects they’re doing all these different policy announcements and things that may help Canadians in different ways but there’s no overarching story they’re telling uh Minister Holland was out here talking about uh different things he’s doing with dental care it’s an interesting story it helps a lot of Canadians and it could be a good thing but it’s not telling me that big story that Pierre POV is telling me that Canada is broken and he has a plan and it’s very simplistic it’s very clear it’s four points that he makes but it resonates and it gets across to people the are not doing that um they so I really think a senior team if they want to try to salvage this need to go to ground this may be their opportunity to do it where they really realize now they need to so so Greg you know Fred is speaking about getting back into the game electorally but can you with with this situation not meet with the caucus and not someone said to me today you need a couple of weeks of clear aggressive caucus management right now because that that is an immediate thing in front of you as a party yeah absolutely if the two things that I would be very critical of the the last nine years would be not taking Communications and media relations seriously the other one would be caucus management and that really came out in 2019 um during the snc lavelin issue with um you know the departure of two people from cabinet you know it became very evident at that time it it’s not an area that the Prime Minister enjoys and if you look at the recent books that have commodo the prime minister um you know they con those those books confirm that I remember at the time asking you know what is caucus reaction and the person that I was talking to fairly senior um you know had a really tight smile on their face and they said you know the Prime Minister this is not where he he likes to be and I pointed out you know the book that came out um on Malon the moon tapes you know prime minister hated that book but if you read that book it’s really evident of how strong maron’s caucus management skills were and that caucus was was you know United and and very tight right up until the end there was loyalty there and I think the Prime Minister has you know he’s excellent with strangers waiting into crowds and there’s a very close circle around him it’s that middle area where there that’s always been a challenge for him and you’ve got to ignore that I I disagree with Fred a little bit about bringing in four or five advisers I think you need to get away from the people you’ve been in the same room for a long time I’m not saying that you let them go or anything like that but if you’re finishing each other’s sentences at this point maybe it’s time to hear from some new people okay uh we got to go a bit quick but Mel on that point I spoke with someone today in the liberal caucus someone who is very loyal to the Prime Minister and and and wants the prime minister to say stay but says he needs to demonstrate change to the caucus and to the country and that’s how do you do that if you Shuffle the cabinet you might get another Caroline Bennett you might get another byelection uh if you shuffle your staff you got people to close you and with the Harper ethics laws it’s hard to bring in people for what could be a short-term operation how do you demonstrate change right now with sort of the limitations around you as a government at this stage in your life cycle right and and I don’t think that by any way this is easy um but but figuring out what’s next figuring out what that narrative is and that’s not something that you’re going to be able to pull pull together in a day but you need to or Canadians need to know why it is that you’re doing this why are you doing it what is coming next and it can’t just be you know because the Prime Minister has a legacy that he wants to leave behind that doesn’t make my life better right that that doesn’t help me pay the bills that doesn’t um make me less angry so so figuring out what what is next why are you still here why are you doing this I think is the the thing that that they really need um to to turn things around to show to got a plan um and that they’re thinking you know what’s coming next so so Fred just give you the last word I know you talk about narrative right they’re not going to say Canada is broken obviously they say Canada is hurting Canada is struggling people need help how do you it’s an economic argument right they do they need a new economic messenger like how do they do this with the the way they’re structured and with the way they run as a government what what would you suggest they do to fix their narrative challenges that you talk about all the time well on that point you know Mark Carney has been the name that we keep hearing as a potential uh future replacement for Trudeau uh I would be recruiting a big economic name if not him someone like him who can come in and be a part of the team can help set the path forward someone that Canadians can have faith in that they have a plan on the future for the economy and that is the big issue right now affordability and and inflation and if they can look show us they have a plan roll up their sleeves and look like they’re working on this um instead of all of these different projects where they’re all over the map and there’s no overarching theme yeah they talk values a lot when the Canadians are focused on value how much is the house how much is the car and do I have enough to to pay for it and you got to get it there somewhere all right Fred delore Melanie reishe Greg mcer uh we wanted to get your reaction cuz you had to leave Monday before we got a results so it’s good to talk to you all I wish we stayed that would have been awesome yeah 5: a.m. FRG go away all right we’ll talk
A stunning byelection loss is prompting questions about the future of the Liberal Party. Health Minister Mark Holland says Canadians want their country to be a better place, and that’s what the Liberals are delivering. Holland also discusses his response to a letter from Alberta’s premier that says the province will opt out of the federal dental plan.
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