Israeli PM says he opposes 2-state solution in any post-war scenario | Power & Politics


We begin with the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he opposes the establishment of a Palestinian State as any part of a post-war scenario that position highlights the Deep divisions between the United States and Israel as US President Joe Biden insists the Israel Hamas conflict won’t ultimately

End until there is a two-state solution meanwhile confusion abounds about Canada’s official position on the allegations of genocide being made against the Israeli government South Africa is bringing the charges against Israel at the international court of justice Ido moed is Israel’s ambassador to Canada Ambassador welcome back to the

Show thank you for having me uh we got a few things to get through but I I want to start on Canada’s position on the case South Africa has brought to the international court of justice as I understand the government’s position they support the court but are taking a

Neutral stance on the allegations brought forward by South Africa is that your understanding of where candida’s position is yes the government is not committed how it will respond to the South AFC to the case to the way the ruling will be by the icj true you you

Issued a statement saying you urg Canada to leave no room for misinterpretation on a matter that is Crystal Clear what would you like to hear from the government of Canada here the same response that we heard from other G7 countries which are very very clear let

Me just read out to you what the french Minister of Foreign Affairs just said to accuse the Jewish state of genocide is to cross a moral threshold for example but there were others that find found other ways to describe the accusation made by South Africa so the issue is not

The court itself Israel respects the court Israel is there to defend itself the point is really that there is an activization that that has no merit that has no base and I think that from our perspective the point is really to say accusing a Jewish state of genocide is

Completely that that’s completely an baseless accusation that that needs to be regarded as such and I don’t think the government of Canada ever did that in in the past there is of course I’m not accusing his Ro of genocide but it needs to be stated clearly have you

Spoken with the Minister of Foreign Affairs Melanie Jolie or senior officials in the Canadian government about this particular issue and if so how did those conversations go well I won’t relate to our internal discussion we have very good uh discussions with the Canadian government on all levels

All the time and so we have also conveyed that message but at this point in time I thought it was important also to come out in public and to make sure that this is where we stand this is what we expect from Canada do you understand why Canada has taken this position if

You look at the protest we’re seeing in some of the parts of Canada if they come out and say it’s not a genocide they potentially enrage uh a segment of the population if they come out and say it is a genocide as others have urge them to do they put Jewish Canadians very

Much at risk and and and put pressure on Israel do you understand this position of neutrality in any way or is it completely unacceptable to Israel no I I understand the position very well but uh the point is really that at this time it’s important to stand firm against

Such accusations that South Africa is making accusing isra Israel of genocide when we are fighting to defend ourselves against a genocidal terrorist organization that has repeatedly said that they will do it again and again this is that’s an atrocity and I think that the world should speak against that

And this is why we are saying what you’re saying right now so did Canada give you any indication just as a final point and this that they might change their position or uh you know it seems to me that this is where they are prepared to to live and die until the

Court renders a verdict well again I’m not going to refer to our internal discussions we have very good channels of communication we talk about everything all the time so okay that I I want to ask you about something that prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in public today uh he he told the world

That he opposes a Palestinian state in any postwar scenario this has raised a lot of eyebrows the US has said that they disagree with Prim Minister Netanyahu on this position does this mean no pal no two-state solution ever as long as Benjamin Yahoo’s prime minister I think that what we should

Understand is that Israel is focused right now and on restoring security for the Israeli population and to making sure that Hamas ceases to exist ceases to threaten the Israeli population and we actually focusing on liberating the Gaza Strip from Hamas this is our main goal right now for the future we’ll look

What will happen in the future we that’s a long way ahead of us you know that in the north we have theah that is threatening uh Israel that has been uh continuously um shooting at innocent Israelis and killing Israelis and they are on the sidelines on this and we

Actually look at Iran that is behind this whole developing story here of uh War Waging War against Israel with the aim to eliminate the state of Israel so our Focus right now is on our defense and and securing the future of Israel we’ll see how we find a way to uh

Continue this this uh situation when this war subsides when we find a way to make once we know that our security is guaranteed then we look forward you you have to win you want to win the war but you also have to win the peace right and

These things need to be done in parallel and and I I I guess is it is it as long as Benjamin Netanyahu is prime minister there will be no Palestinian State because he said today they need to have some sort of a security arrangement from the River Jordan to all the lands West

And and he said how does that align with sovereignty in terms of uh Palestine having a sovereign Palestine in that area we we have a very strange reality that has changed on the 7th of October before up until that time things look very different so we had the Gaza Strip

We had a sort of a ceasefire there that was broken by Hamas when they initiated their terrorist attack with a Palestinian Authority that in in many ways the force does not condemn the Hamas but maybe even is supportive of some of the we don’t know where we stand

With the Palestinian Authority at its current state so talking about the two-state solution is something that is not tangible at the moment and therefore we there is no reason to to rediscussed when we know that we at the current state there is there is no way to discuss it but the prime minister’s

Words As I understood them because it’s true translation so I I will confess I’m not a Hebrew speaker uh but he’s not talking about for the moment he talks about in any post-war scenario I mean this is the the position of the United States Canada a lot of the NATO allies

You refer to who are backing Israel in the icj process also back a two-state solution so so how can how can this conflict end with with with the prime minister of the day emphatically ruling out what people see is the best path to peace we we have to understand what we

Are talking about when we are talking about a two-state solution I don’t think that anybody has any idea what it entails when we are talking about it right now when we are fighting this war against Hamas so talking about an idea from the past when we know that the

Future is completely different the environment is going to change in a very profound profound way doesn’t really make sense and this is what prime minister is saying so we have a future in the region together with our neighbors we know that and we will find

A way to create a safer solution for all of us the first step would definitely be getting rid of Hamas from the Gaza Strip and liberating the Gaza Strip from Hamas because they are the ones that really block it they are the ones that out there to kill Israelis and to basically

Eradicate the state of Israel together with Iran witha and so on so we have to make sure that that doesn’t happen if we talking about a two-state solution we have to guarantee that our state is there when we are talking about any kind of a solution and at the moment we are

Under threat so we are at War and we have to win that war and once we win that war we’ll see we’ll see though is a difficult message to take to the International Community as it not I mean you saw what happened with the vote in the United Nations and and while people

Are lining up uh with your country some of the G7 allies at the icj even the British foreign minister is worried about suggested that he has concerns that maybe Israel has violated international law and the way it’s conducted the war so there is some growing concern on how this war is going

And now the this the the comments from prime minister Netanyahu today are you worried this will shake the strength of your allies the support of your allies if if the prime minister is ruling out what they hold as as as as the the peace solution here so let me be

Clear on this all our allies including Canada stand very strongly by Israel continue to support Israel’s right to exist Israel’s right to defend itself condemn Hamas on the strongest possible terms call for the return of the hostages and uh by the way just on this occasion let me remind all of us that

Today is the first birthday of f bias the little boy one-year-old baby that is also Al held captive among with 135 other hostages in Gaza um when we’re talking about when I’m saying we’ll see we have to understand that we are in a very complex War it is very difficult to predict from

Now what will be the status two days from here or two months from here or two years from now so let us not try to impose any kind of an idea that is based on a reality that doesn’t exist anymore let us think think in another way I

Don’t think that the Palestinians will go that not Our intention to you know to to chase any of our neighbors away we will live together in this region we know that and we respect that moreover it is very important for us while fighting this war to make sure that the humanitarian assistance that

Palestinians need to have will continue to get into the Gaza Strip it’s extremely important for us to find ways to minimize the losses of lives because because they are our neighbors so the issue of coexistence is not the same as a two-state solution we will find a way

To live together in the future in a respectable way but at the moment it’s not the right time to talk about that and I think that the two-state solution is a concept that is not realistic anymore okay but just as a in in that context but just as a final point on

This coexistence it sounds like based on what the Prime Minister said and other ministers in his government and certainly in the war cabinet and and and the Coalition you find a way to coexist but that sounds like on Israel’s terms without necessarily autonomy and self-determination for the Palestinian

People who are not part of Hamas and want to have their own land in this particular region that’s how many people could interpret this the only term that we will need to assure and guarantee is security for our from our perspective it’s less relevant what kind of an

Entity will be there as long as it respects Israel’s right to exist and will uphold its cont Earth’s responsibility and commitment to security this is what we need this is what every country Around the World wishes to have that its neighbors will not attack it and this is what this

These are the only terms that we’ve been discussing when we’ve been negotiating with Arab countries in the past and that’s the same will be in the future Ido Moet Israel’s ambassador to Canada thanks again for your time thank you prime minister Justin Trudeau has asked last hour about the Israeli Prime

Minister’s opposition to a Palestinian state Trudeau said he wasn’t surprised and actually discussed this issue with Benjamin Netanyahu a few weeks ago Canada’s position is Crystal Clear we believe the only way forward for the region indeed the only way forward for a safe and secure Israel is to have a

Palestinian state that is also safe and secure with internationally recognized borders okay we spoke to the Israeli Ambassador before those comments and we also spoke to the Palestinian representative in Canada before Trudeau spoke to get her perspective Mona abua is the chief representative of the Palestinian delegation to Canada Mona abuo welcome

Back to the show thank you David Israel’s primee Minister today Benjamin Netanyahu announced that he opposed A Palestinian state in any postwar scenario what’s your reaction to that announcement the thing that caught uh my eye mostly was uh the from The River To The Sea use so uh that’s the prime

Minister of Israel um the prime minister of an occupying power saying that and uh that’s something that we have been saying for a long long time um in the course of these three months um prime minister Netanyahu have said everything that Western uh democracies uh refused to believe and blame the Palestinians uh

The Palestinian leadership and the state of Palestine in general for um not achieving the the peace uh um initiative not not fulfilling it to to in due course uh but uh Netanyahu came out and said that he was the reason the Oslo Court uh failed and now he’s saying that he would not

Allow for any of that to happen we will not abide we we are not going to be um oppressed and occupied forever so that’s not uh something that we would be agree with or uh appeasing the International Community now more than ever has the um responsibility to implement the uh International

Legitimacy that we agreed on okay so that’s where I wanted to go next but just on your River to the see what prime minister Netanyahu said today was that Israel needs a security arrangement of some sort from the Jordan to the west and that would be the totality of the

Area right that that that’s that’s all no it’s that they will be occupying the whole okay all right but but you say it’s time now for the International Community I mean Canada has supported a two-state solution uh you know as as the way to peace and stability in that

Region the United States said today they disagree with Israel what do you want Canada to do and what do you want to see the International Community do okay first of all the International Community has failed the Palestinians uh uh for decades now when when you come and see

What’s happening in Gaza it’s uh it did not come in a vacuum it happened because impunity have been so Stark for Israel that nothing it would do to the Palestinian people would make uh would have any uh consequences it would never be held accountable and that brings us

To uh this horrific uh uh situation that we are facing in Gaza a total genocide so uh what we want we want the implementation of international law we want for Palestine not to be the exception anymore we want is Israel to be held accountable and yes Israel

Should be held accountable in all fors that the International Community in Canada believes in so why is it that anytime anything comes to Israel then every all laws change and and we need to be neutral to an occupier Canada and uh the West in general is not identifying

Israel plainly as an occupier anymore we don’t hear the Word occupation apartheid is there South Africa said it’s there uh the all the international um uh organizations the human rights organizations said it’s time for the International Community to actually stand how do you do how do you do that

Though uh I mean because Israel right now there there is this active military campaign happening in Gaza you know as they say they’re seeking to eradicate Hass and I know the civilian death toll has been enormous in the middle of that but they focus the Ambassador said this

Is on security and after that we’ll see was the phrase he use in terms of figuring out the coexistance arrangement to use his word so how does the International Community go into a state like Israel and impose a solution that sat would satisfy that you don’t allow

The oppressor the occupier to decide if the occupied and the oppressed get to have their own State you recognize that state you are saying there’s a two-state solution and now the other you Rec recognize the party that is doing the oppression that is committing the genocide that is uh

Being now fortunately uh starting to be held accountable in in in the in front of the highest court um so so just Implement what you have been preaching the values the principles the resolutions we need to actually uh call out Israel as an occupying power where

We need to call out not just by words but by action to end its occupation to end its settle to to the stop the settlements building to stop moving settlers to stop the terrorism that the settlers are doing we have been hearing a lot of words but when it comes to

Other issues we have seen uh action on the ground we haven’t seen you asking people other um people and I I don’t want to make comparisons anymore because what’s happening in Gaza and in pales hasn’t happened uh in other places but we have seen what the International Community and especially Canada can do

When it decides to do on the issue of the allegations of genocide brought against Israel you use that word a couple of times in this conversation South Africa has accused uh Israel of committing genocide at the international court of justice Canada is Bucking with the breaking with a lot of its G7 allies

And staying neutral on this position saying they have respect for the icj they don’t necessarily support the case but they haven’t rejected the case either what do you make of this neutral position that Canada is trying to carve out here so uh before the statements came I heard the uh uh the press

Conference that prime minister trau had and um there was a lot of confusion but I’ve I’ve heard everywhere but uh I understood um and and for Palestine we understood that this is a neutral position I had meetings right after uh that and uh of course Palestinians would

Love to see Canada stand by South Africa uh in its case because it’s a case for justice and accountability an an end to an prevention of further uh genocide but we also the second best choice is for Canada not to um inflict a negative position on this situation or standby um

Israel like Germany for instance because um at the end of the day you don’t want to see this double standard be so Stark we we’ve seen Canada uh opposing a lot of um issues when it comes to Palestinians using the right in in international forums and we hope that uh

At this point we will not see anything like this if we don’t actually see a positive um stand from Canada it is still unclear to me if Canada would abide by a decision of the icj I mean some of the conversations I’ve had with people in the government suggests that

They they may reserve the right to disagree with it uh I don’t know yet there is a vagueness to this that isn’t there with the United States the United Kingdom France and Germany France initially seemed to take the neutral path but have come out and against the allegations of genocide if Canada had

Taken aside um what do you think the impact of that would have been domestically because we’re seeing so much tension in the country if the government had taken an official position on this what impact might that have had first of all internationally uh like on the international sphere that

Would affect Canada’s credibility a lot because you can’t choose what international laws do whenever you want it’s in your interest because then that’s not universality and and you can’t every single time um decide what you like and don’t like and then have that be implemented and have exceptions

Because if you have an exception to the rules-based order it’s not a rules-based order on on the um the IC level of course that would be affecting a lot of people because Canada is a place that welcomed a lot of uh immigrants from different places and the the Palestinian

Cause is a cause it is a cause for justice for everyone and values and principle but it’s also a cause that’s very close to the hearts of uh communities the Palestinian mainly and then we have the Muslim and the Arab and and a lot of friends uh from all over

Other communities as well so yeah I I can see it uh having an effect in Canada as well as on its International credibility just as as a final uh question just to sort of I want to go back to kind of where we started with this on what the Prime Minister

Netanyahu said about no to no Palestinian state in a postwar Gaza when you look at that and you look at what is happening inside Gaza what do you think happens next in this conflict what does that tell you about where this conflict is and how soon maybe the military campaign could

Potentially end if they see no viable path to a Palestinian state from their perspective so the sooner the International Community starts uh identifying this as a struggle uh another conflict it’s not a war on Hamas it’s a war on the whole of Palestine it has been going on for more than 75 years

And and that needs to be treated the root causes not to give more excuses of self-defense or article 51 that has by the way been uh proven uh inappropriate to be used in such cases because it’s not a state against State and and Israel controls the territory that it claims

It’s uh um it it it has self-defense against which which is not appropriate in international law not to mention that even those who are um there is an investigation plus 972 magazine has done and CNN has published it about the indiscriminate use and the mass killing that is happening from the uh

Perspectives of uh military uh the people who are now in the military uh and and those who have been in how this uh issue has been treated and how Palestinians are being murdered for the sake of being murdered um just to make enough destruction to have a problem in

In in the place and go to the uh imminent goal of uh ethnic cleansing and uh forcable displ displacement Palestinians will stay on their land and we are hoping that um Canada and we have seen Canada wanting to play uh a better role and it’s

Now or we are getting to a place where a slippery slope would be uh imminent Chief representative Mona abuo of the Palestinian delegation to Canada thank you for your time today thank you David

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Thursday that he opposes a Palestinian state as part of any post-war scenario. Iddo Moed, Israel’s ambassador to Canada, and Mona Abuamara, chief representative of the Palestinian Delegation to Canada, discuss Netanyahu’s comments and Canada’s position on South Africa’s genocide case against Israel.

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