Today is September the 8 2017 it’s 8:36 a.m. my name is Constable Derek Carlson spelled c a r LS o n reg number is 52824 attached to the Evon Major Crimes unit in with tasin Alberta currently and investigating file number 2017 115 7384 homicide of Miles nasland Helen was sitting in a stark
Beige interrogation room in theasin RCMP Detachment it was an unseasonably hot September morning in 2017 six years after she and her sons reported miles missing conal Derek Carlson had gotten hell in her medication he offered her a cup of coffee and a breakfast sandwich which sat growing cold on the table
Between them got you a copy there I’m not sure it’s uh it’s black right now but that’s some the interrogation had started the night before and conable Carlson reminded Helen of her rights uh I let you know there’s a couple things um that camera’s still on
Recorder still on and you have to be uh cognizant that um that nothing has changed I just want to make sure that have you talked to anybody in C V like has anybody threatened you or promised you anything or I know something after approaching Helen at work the RCMP had searched the
Farm for almost 2 weeks they found miles’s Chevy Cavalier buried behind a building not far from the house and miles is 357 Magnum and a 22 pistol in a pond on the property and at the bottom of a Dugout a few miles away police divers found a
Large metal truck toolbx that had been welded shut miles’s body was crammed inside there was a grocery bag over his head an autopsy was done on September 5th 2017 exactly 6 years to the day after he was killed the pathologist found two bullets in miles’s brain and soot on the back of
His skull indicating he’d been shot at close range in the interrogation room Helen sat looking down staring at her hands she picked at her jeans sometimes wiped away tears I’m going to make an assumption here because last night I didn’t go straight to bed I went downstairs and I
Reviewed more of this file and I actually reviewed a lot of the seene photos from your house I there’s a video of your whole house on the inside Helen I saw not one picture of Miles anywhere like not one picture and that’s speaks volumes and now I I’m starting to understand why that
Is there’s memories that you want to keep alive there’s memories that you want to have close to your heart and then there’s memories that you just can’t escape and you’ll do anything to get rid of those memories but I want you to think about that Helen cuz I know that’s important
Then we’re going to talk about that more in the 5 and 1/ half hour interrogation the officers bring up something they call responsibility pie they know everyone on the farm played some role in killing miles and getting rid of the evidence but they want to know who
Should take the most blame who gets the biggest slice of the pie I’m Janna Pruden and this is in her defense from the Globe and Mail episode 4 responsibility Pi at first conable Carlson did nearly all the Talking he talked about his childhood his memories his kids farming
Building Rapport well some of his monologues felt a bit random he’d obviously thought about things that would connect with Helen he said he’d grown up on a farm too and he made it sound like he understood what Helen had been living through with Miles he’d spoken to people who knew the nasin like
Their friend Phil who had witnessed miles abusing Helen the the suffering is very important to consider right and from from what I know and from what I understand you were suffering living with with living with Miles and living in that home we briefly touched on and without an
Explanation uh what I believe to be what’s happening on your in your home in Rel in relation to domestic violence speaking to people like Phil and learning from an outsider’s perspective what he saw and and I know guys like Phil aren’t there at 3:00 in
The morning on a Tuesday night or at 8 : in the morning on a Thursday to see exactly what’s going on he just sees he sees when you and uh and uh miles are sitting around the kitchen table playing cards miles gets too drunk calls you a [ __ ] or whatever
And then tries to take a round out of you he sees that but he doesn’t see the daily Daily Grind of actually living with this guy I think you did what you had to do because because it was necessary it was an escape the suffering had to
End three other officers came in and out of the room Richard Prat and Derk Carlson seemed to be doing a good cop bad cop thing sometimes the two men sat facing Helen their knees almost touching hers they told Helen they believed she was a good person who had no other option
Actually it was more that they wanted to believe she was a good person who did what she had to do but they needed her to tell them the whole story to be sure the longer she stayed quiet the more they appeared to doubt her I really thought it to
Beginning yesterday that you were a good person I’m still clinging to that forced to do something for necessity they had to happen I’ve I’ve watched the interviews with Travis Vader because that’s an opportunity to talk to or observe an actual coldblooded killer Helen you’re not that person cuz
Helen I don’t think you’re the Travis Vader who’s tracked down two elderly people and executed them and stole their property you’re not a cold killer Helen Am I Wrong Helen Travis Vader was Notorious in Alberta at the time he killed two seniors and still has never said what he did with their
Bodies Travis Vader will look right through you and tell you that there there’s just no there’s just no remorse there Helen you’re not that person Travis Vader used to call me from jail when I was covering his case I can confirm she is not that person you’re a 57-year-old mother of
Three she was was actually 52 at the time you’ve made many decisions in your life you could choose to make the right one here today or not it’s up to you you can choose to add contacts to what happened and you can choose to be truthful an honest and a good person or
Not that’s up to you I am a good person I know you are thank you thanks for telling yourself at some point Helen started to talk a bit about life with Miles she told Constable Carlson about how she tried to kill herself and again he sounded understanding did you ever reach out to
Anybody like a family member ask for help not really I didn’t really have a family member or a friend that I could find it was going to do me any good trying to kill myself for years oh you got to talk about I’m here to listen well helps me understand what’s
Going on with you if you’re willing to take your own life I I don’t know what to what to say I need to understand why I need understand how how if you get to this point I hated my life I didn’t have a life so you tried to escape by killing yourself
That how did you try to do that overdose when did that happen I don’t even remember leg are put AAL Block in my past Helen trying to kill yourself is is serious that’s one way to escape an abusive relationship that’s one of the uh I would say classic but it’s one of
The indicators of domestic violence when people try to take their own lives they either they’re just uh inundated with the pain and suffering of everyday life or something traumatic happens in their life that they can’t live with anymore and I don’t know from what you
Told me you said it was the abuse there was abuse involved and uh selfishness of of Miles what you told me it sounds like a it’s an ongoing thing it’s a it’s a not not a one instant it’s a long period of time of of abuse that maybe it caused you to do
That that right or is that wrong yeah we can’t go back in time we can’t give you that Lifeline to say Helen here’s an out Helen here’s a safe house Helen here’s a family memory you live with I want to know why why you didn’t leave the farm I tried tell me about
That I felt threatened he was abusive controlling was told I could not leave but while conable Carlson seemed like he wanted to really understand what had been happening on the farm the thisen PR began accusing Helen of a far more devious plan that you have given me zero no
Indication that being a physically abused person or battered wife is the issue here zero so now it’s stuck it’s left with me when I look at this file the entire file rests solely on the fact that Miles was a colossal ass that he was burying you in debt and that
For greed and financial reasons he was murdered and then his body taken sealed up in a toolbox dumped into a Dugout the car buried in the ground and an elaborate story devised very simple to make it easy for all the boys to remember was devised to throw the police off the
Track so that nobody would know I just articulated to you cold calculated methodical homicide policing 101 that’s textbook example if I’m wrong Helen tell me Tell tell me that I’m wrong that this was not a cold calculated homicide that was planned and orchestrated Helen’s lawyer had told her
Not to speak to the police this is what any defense lawyer will tell you even if you’re innocent don’t talk but it’s the interrogator job to get you talking to get a confession that will hold up in court and it was working it seemed like there were things
Helen wanted to say but she wanted to check with her lawyer first she kept asking again and again I just feel I need to talk to my lawyer I have a couple questions for my lawyer that’s I like to talk to my lawyer before I answer
Questions I know it needs to be talked about I just I don’t understand why I can’t consult with my lawyer just ask a couple questions again I’m sorry I I just feel I need to confirm with me um like I feel I really do have that right she actually didn’t have that
Right she’d spoken to a lawyer already and since nothing had changed police didn’t have to let her talk to him again also unlike on American TV shows like Law and Order in Canada adults don’t have the right to have a lawyer with them while they’re being questioned would it be better to tell
The police everything to describe the sadistic violence she and her children had endured for nearly 30 years Helen didn’t know what to do we haven’t talked much about Daryl Daryl is Miles and Helen’s middle son there’s always been in a divide between Daryl and his brothers here’s how Wes
Put it Daryl’s a perfect child cuz Daryl’s just like miles Daryl followed miles everywhere Daryl acted like miles Daryl did what miles wanted nobody else wanted to be around him but Daryl liked them so Daryl’s perfect child I got in touch with Daryl but he hasn’t agreed to speak with me
When Helen was arrested darl was 29 years old he’d had several head injuries including fracturing his skull in a highway accident a few years earlier he also had a serious drug problem Daryl had his own trouble with the law his record includes charges for theft and assaulting a police
Officer on a couple of occasions Daryl had pretended to be Wes sticking Wes with an arrest warrant for some thefts at a Walmart which caused us a lot of trouble and that was before Daryl went to the police about his family Daryl had spoken with police twice after miles was reported missing
And he repeated the story the rest of his family was telling the miles had gone off to kill himself or maybe been killed by some guys from the city at the end of August in 2017 he went to talk to Constable Carlson this time he said he woke up at
4:30 in the morning to a gunshot and the dog barking he said Neil was dressed and that he could hear somebody running upstairs he said my mother was coming downstairs with her house coat and her night gown thing on with a pistol in her hand and Neil stands up and he looked at
Me and he just gives me this stupid look and he walks straight at her and she’s balling her eyes out and he took the gun from her and he went upstairs darl said he heard two more shots and that Neil came out and said he’s [ __ ] dead
Now Daryl said he wanted to call the police but that his mother and brother threatened to kill him if he did he said Neil dragged their father’s body outside and that later they put the body in a big metal box then took it in a fishing
Boat to the middle of a pond on their Grandma’s property he said Helen burned the mattress down to the springs Daryl said miles didn’t abuse his family but he also said no matter what he might have ever done to somebody he did not deserve to be shot in his
Sleep I couldn’t agree with you more Carlson told him to have somebody shot in their sleep like you just told me that doesn’t get any more cowardly than that the way Daryl told it he wasn’t eating much of this responsibility pie he said the biggest slice belonged to
His mother the second biggest to Neil that’s how it goes in a lot of criminal invest investigations people are trying not to take the blame pinning it on each other instead but Helen wasn’t like that he told me that when you’re out there having a cigarette you’d ask a
Question this pretty pretty important question you’re wondering about Wes and Neil right I can tell you that they’re both here right I’m sure you knew that before did you I thought so but I didn’t know yeah got to remember Helen this is it’s hard on everybody right they’re they’re they’re speaking to the
Police and they’re uh what they’re telling the police is very compelling right do you got to you got I’m not going to discuss about what they they’re saying right now I’m going to tell you that it’s it’s compelling I want you to understand that the uh it’s not only it’s not only you
That’s in this in situation it’s other people and I and specifically people that you care about directly care about it’s a very powerful thing I I know you care for Wes I know you care for Neil I know that Daryl’s your son I don’t know he’ll always be your son you
Can’t change that I know that you will love him because that’s the type of person you are you can be upset with him but I know that deep down inside you Helen you do love him by then Helen understood that Daryl had turned them all in but the police
Let her know they didn’t really believe everything he was saying interrupt you s interrupt I’m not going to be a second want to interrupt um talking Neil as you know I want to tell you that we’re painting Daryl with a much cleaner brush than he deserves that’s what I’m saying
That’s all I’ll say but I can tell you Helen you’re not alone uh you’re not going to be the one who breaks the camels back here uh Neil is upset but we’re talked through it and we’ve we’ve gotten to a lot of facts I just want to let you know heard talk
About Daryl yeah his story isn’t exactly what’s portrayed to us great that Mak sense yes this was a tactic but they also knew Daryl wasn’t telling the whole truth there were too many things that didn’t add up see what happens is Daryl tells us the truth about some
Stuff and then he minimizes his involvement in other stuff and that might just be self-preservation that might be because he honestly doesn’t remember the boys were the most powerful tool the police had against Helen her desire to protect Wes and Neil was Far stronger than wanting to be seen as a
Good person or any concern she had for herself we can’t change the past but we can affect the future by doing the right thing in the present because I’m telling you right now having your entire family go to jail CU that’s that’s what the prospects are looking at right
Now we know Wes hasn’t been truthful with us we know Daryl side of the story and we’ve been able to corroborate a bunch of it we know what his relationship was like with his father so we know it’s not him that did it the police started playing Helen parts of Neil’s
Interrogation which was happening at the same time elsewhere in the building here Neil is reacting to what Daryl has told the police just ah heads up that there’s a lot of swearing in this next bit [ __ ] Ling piece of [ __ ] cowardly little [ __ ] drug addict [ __ ] way around there
Bud he wants to [ __ ] change up change things up and put himself in my [ __ ] shoes and [ __ ] switch everything around like he’s [ __ ] doing I’ll [ __ ] flatten him [ __ ] [ __ ] circumstance I thr until [ __ ] circumstance I didn’t have a choice okay I protect my [ __ ] mom my Mom’s done
Everything for me she’s [ __ ] made my life possible in more ways than one that’s all I did protack my [ __ ] mom did you hear that first part I didn’t have a choice I was thrown into a circumstance I was thrown into a circumstance yeah so we know that he in some way participated
Right I mean and know Mark talked to you yesterday about the level of work that it was that would have taken to take miles out of the house and that’s not something that you could have physically done on your own no right he was put into a situation didn’t
Have a choice he has to protect you so if we and I’ve been watching very intently let’s let’s skip over that the roughest part there they told us that the boys were downstairs that you were upstairs the event happens miles is now dead what happens after that one I had to do
Something okay what did you guys do I do believe you know that don’t you but hel important for us to know from you what went on I don’t want to see Neil’s desire to protect you be the thing that causes him to be blamed for stuff that he didn’t
Do you’re the mother here hel yes there’s going to be blame that goes around yes people are going to take responsibility for their portion but you are the parent parent you’re the mother and you have a choice you have a chance to make sure that the boys don’t start either taking
Blame that’s not theirs or trying to blame stuff on others that they shouldn’t be I won’t let them take the blame well we know they were involved like I said Helen I know you want to protect them too but there is physically no way that you could have got miles out of the
House into that toolbox and out in the middle of thato mil more than 5 hours into her interrogation Helen realizes both she and Neil could be charged with murder what you can’t charged two people with murder yeah we can I’ve I’ve worked on files in fact
I’m going to court on a file next week where four people have been charged with the same murder I don’t understand how because the four people were responsible for it they took action they did things to cause the death of that person and so let me be clear they did
Stuff to cause the death of that person that’s not including the stuff that happens afterwards right what happens afterwards is different that’s accessory after the fact see and and that’s why Wesley was not charged with murder right because we were under the belief that he wasn’t there at the
Time what we’re really interested in is to BU yes and that responsibility belongs to one person and who’s that person H did you hear that Helen just barely whispered the word she said the responsibility belongs to one person myself yes and that responsibility belongs to one person
Myself this is the beginning of a confession now Constable Carlson wants to get as many details as possible very that was very courageous and you’re a good person okay let’s let’s talk about that is just something that didn’t was this planned out was this planned no when did it happen what time of
Day was it is that when miles was in bed and then what happened you left the bedroom didn’t you where’ you go I didn’t know what to do Pani just everybody’s heard to stop yeah where’d you get the gun it’s just in the house what color was it I don’t know a gun
Color can you describe it for us what the them look like B was a 22 pistol whose gun is it I’m really not sure whether it was my house from we had a lot of guns okay but it was in the house yes when you go into the
Bedroom you have the gun with you yes okay now what do you do this is where it’s important for for being credible right he told us that there was only one person is that right Helen or is that wrong we’ve cut a lot of Silence out of this
Interrogation a full 30 seconds goes by before Helen speaks the person that killed M very important that you told that thank you I want you to tell me how you know how you know that did you kill mouse and how do you know you killed him Helen how do you know you killed
My sh where where did you shoot him just wanted his suffering and everybody else and I can appreciate that that makes sense right makes sense what I need to know is you you told me you said quite confidently that that you you’re the one who killed miles
And you told me that he shot him I was asking you where you where you shot miles and now I understand why I want to know how now it’s one thing for you to say that you’re responsible and you remember when I asked the question you know who’s responsible and then who
Was there that you know who actually did the action we ask questions like where did you shoot him because that’s going to help us understand if you’re telling us the truth because there’s two ways to take responsibility one is actually doing the action yourself or two telling somebody
To go do it for you you’re telling us that you’re the one responsible and I believe you’re telling me the truth but if you’re the one that actually did it you should be able to tell us where you shot him because if not I’m left to believe
That somebody else actually did it or that there’s the potential that somebody else was involved in that portion we’re only looking for the truth out shot him in the back of the hand okay how many times once okay Helen asks to lay down the interrogation is over
Tell what you did today they is very courageous okay I respect you for that very respected like the had the farm was not always the easiest I understand miles not always the nicest person created a violent home that was difficult to live in for you and your your boys
The goal of an interrogation is to get a confession and enough detail about the crime to secure a conviction in court the police needed her to say that she did it and how they told her they understood why like conable Carlson said the suffering had to end but Helen was charged with
First-degree murder so is Neil it’s the most serious form of homicide in the criminal C code planned and deliberate murder if convicted they would both spend at least 25 years in prison before they could even apply for parole I’ll end the recording now next time on in her defense my age
Of first degree murder charge was so distance in her defense is made by casha mahovich and me Jenna Pruden Amber Bracken did our field recording our executive editor is Angela Penza special thanks to head of visual journalism Matt frer and head of editing Ian bov our theme song is The
Fighter by Jen Grant Arrangements by David Crosby in her defense is recorded at mchan University by Sheena Roser Emily rubita and Sasha stoich David Crosby mixed this episode I’ve been getting a lot of emails and if you have something to say I’d love to
Hear from you too you can email me at J pen globan mail.com to learn more about this podcast and domestic violence in Canada go to TG am.ca.gov that’s defense with a se you can sign up for our newsletter there too if you experiencing domestic violence
And want to talk to someone you can find resources and your nearest shelter at shelters safe.com consider subscribing to the glob and mail our listeners get a special discount on new subscriptions at www. globeandmail.com podcast deal take care and thank you for listening oh
Helen is interrogated by police officers who say they understand the abuse she’d been living with, and know that something had to happen for her to get free. Someone she loves has betrayed her. Her life – and the lives of her sons – are all on the line.
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E-mail the reporter, Jana Pruden, at [email protected]
If you’re experiencing domestic violence and want to talk to someone, you can find resources and your nearest shelter at sheltersafe.ca
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