Ontario’s finance minister questioned over Greenbelt plans

TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. >> ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THIS RELATIVELY POSITIVE NEWS IS GOING TO BE LOST BY THE GREENBELT LAND SWAP CONTROVERSY? YOU HAD HUNDREDS OF PROTESTERS AT YOUR CONSTITUENCY OFFICE IN PICKERING YESTERDAY. IS THERE A DEIGNING THAT THE GOVERNMENT’S PROBLEMS ON THE GREENBELT ARE GOING TO OVERSHADOW THE RELATIVELY STABLE

AND POSITIVE NEWS HERE? >> I DON’T THINK SO. I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO RECOGNIZE THAT WE’VE HAD ALMOST — OUR POPULATION HAS GROWN BY ALMOST HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. THEY’RE COMING TO THIS GREAT PROVINCE. I THINK THAT’S A GREAT THING. BUT WE’VE GOT TO CONTINUE NOT JUST BUILDING HOUSES, WHICH IS

AN IMPORTANT PART, BUT THE SCHOOLS, THE HEALTH CARE, 9 ROADS, THE PUBLIC TRANSIT, THE LONG-TERM CARE, THE BROADBAND. WE’VE GOT AN UNPRECEDENTED INFRASTRUCTURE CHALLENGE IN FRONT OF US AS WE WELCOME NEW WOMANNERS TO THIS PROVINCE, AS WE TRAIN AND RETRAIN SKILLED WORKERS, WORKERS RIGHT ACROSS THE PROVINCE.

SO I THINK THIS IS JUST A PART OF THE OVERALL NECESSITY FOR US TO BUILD THE ECONOMY OF THE FUTURE. >> TURNS OUT THAT — I MEAN, THIS IS OVERSHADOWING THE GOVERNMENT’S MESSAGE ON OTHER THINGS. I MEAN, THIS REPORT LAST WEEK IS DEVASTATING. ONYALIES I GO I CAN IS MORE OF A

PAIN IN THE BUTT TO YOU GUYS BUT SHE DELIVERED A VERY VERSION TOUGH REPORT, MAKES THE GOVERNMENT LOOK REALLY BAD. I THINK IF YOU ASK A HUNDRED PEOPLE ON YONGE STREET RIGHT NOW WHAT THEY THOUGHT, 75 OF THEM WOULD SAY JESUS, THAT DOESN’T SOUND GOOD. >> ROB, YOU KNOW WHEN I TALK TO

A HUNDRED PEOPLE IN MY RIDINGS WHEREAS YOU MENTIONED THERE WAS SOME PEOPLE OUT THERE DEMONSTRATING AND OBVIOUSLY PURSUING THEIR DEMOCRATIC RIGHT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THEM TALKED TO ME ABOUT AFFORDABILITY IN THIS PROVINCE. THEY TALKED TO ME THE HIGH COST OF RENT, THEY TALK ABOUT THE

HIGH COST OF THE DREAM OF OWNING A HOME. MY RIDING HAS A LOT OF NEWCOMERS, SO I TALK TO THEM ALL THE TIME. THE PEOPLE ON THE STREET, THE HUNDRED PEOPLE THAT I TALK TO, SAY, BUILD. WE NEED SCHOOLS, WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE, WE NEED HEALTH CARE, WE NEED PUBLIC TRANSIT, WE

NEED HOUSES BUILT, WE NEED A PLACE TO LIVE. SO THAT’S WHAT I HEAR, AND THAT’S WHY WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE ON OUR PLAN TO BUILD. >> YOU DON’T THINK ANYBODY CARES THAT THE PROCESS WAS FLAWED, THE AG’S FINDINGS, THAT THERE WAS A BIAS TOWARD POWERFUL DEVELOPERS? YOU’RE SAYING NOBODY CARES ABOUT THAT?

>> I DIDN’T SAY NOBODY CARES. WHAT I DID SAY IS THAT WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE OUR FOCUS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CONTINUE OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THE FURTHER’S THERE. WITH REGARD TO THE REPORT, AS THE PREMIER AND MINISTER CLARK HAVE SAID, THE 14 RECOMMENDATIONS ARE OUT OF 15

ARE IMPORTANT TO PURSUE AND THEY’VE COMMITTED TO FOLLOW THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS — >> [Inaudible] THAT’S ACTUALLY A CRITICAL — ACTUALLY ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROCESS WAS FLAWED AND TO LOOK AT IT AND TO RECONSIDER 389. WHY NOT FOLLOW THAT ONE AND SAY TO VOTERS, OKAY, WE MADE A MISTAKE, WE’RE GOING TO REVISIT,

THIS WE’RE GOING TO MAKE SURE WE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION? >> WITH 500,000 PEOPLE COMING TO THIS PROVINCE LAST YEAR AND WHO KNOWS WHAT NUMBER THAT WILL BE THIS YEAR, WE HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO TO CONTINUE TO BUILD HOUSES. THERE’S NO QUESTION. SO WE’VE ACKNOWLEDGED AND THE

PREMIER AND THE MINISTER CLARK HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROCESS COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER, WITHOUT QUESTION, ACCEPTED THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT WE’RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE IT’S AN ABSOLUTE CRISIS THAT WE’RE IN. WE’RE IN A HOUSING CRISIS AND I DON’T THINK ANYONE WANTS TO STAND IN FRONT OF YOU A YEAR

FROM NOW, TWO YEARS FROM NOW, AND SAY THAT WE DIDN’T GET THE JOB DONE. >> THE LARGEST SECTION HAD A WAS REMOVED IN YOUR RIDING, I MEAN, YOU’VE BEEN THERE SINCE 2018, YOU’VE HAD POWERFUL PROMINENT POSITIONS WITHIN THIS GOVERNMENT. DID ANY HAD ANY DEVELOPER REACH OUT TO YOU TO SAY I WANT THAT

LAND REMOVED? >> THEY DIDN’T — YOU KNOW, I HAVEN’T SAT DOWN WITH THOSE DEVELOPERS IN TERMS OF TALKING ABOUT REMOVING THOSE LANDS. CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT — BUT THE MAYOR AT THE TIME AND THE COUNCIL BROUGHT AND UP MANY PEOPLE BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT THEY’VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR OVER

A COUPLE OF DECADES TO GET THOSE LANDS DEVELOPED. IN FACT, THERE WAS I BELIEVE A COMMITMENT TO START THAT PROCESS AND THEN ACCORDING TO THESE MAYORS IT WASN’T REAL SCIENCE; IT WAS POLITICAL SCIENCE THAT THOSE LANDS WERE REMOVED. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE MUNICIPALITY HAS BEEN ADVOCATING FOR A LONG TIME.

I’M SURE THE DEVELOPERS HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THAT FOR A LOCK TIME. THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THAT LAND, WHICH I DON’T KNOW THE FULL LIST, BUT OF COURSE THERE MUST BE MANY. BUT WHAT I’VE HEARD CONSISTENTLY FROM THE COUNCIL, FROM THE MAYOR, THE PREVIOUS MAYORS, IS THAT PICKERING ALONG WITH A LOT

OF OTHER COMMUNITIES IS BURSTING AT THE SEAMS. PEOPLE ARE MOVING IN. AND REMEMBER, THAT LAND IS OF COURSE BETWEEN FINCH AND THE 407 RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE LARGEST CITY IN CANADA. SO THEY WANT TO GET THOSE HOUSES BUILT. >> SO WHAT DID YOU FIND OUT THAT SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF LAND IN

YOUR RIDING WAS GOING TO BE REMOVED FROM THE GREENBELT? WHAT DID YOU SAY? I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SAY THE FINANCE MINISTER, SOMEBODY WHO HAS TREMENDOUS POWER WHEN IT COMES TO THE GOVERNMENT, INFLUENCE AS WELL WORKS HAVE SAID HEY, WHAT’S GOING ON HERE, HOW DID YOU SELECT THE LAND?

WHAT LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT DID YOU HAVE WHEN IT CAME TO THE LAND IN YOUR RIDING TO SAY — HOW DID THIS PROCESS — FIGURE OUT THIS PLAN? >> I WAS BRIEFED THE DAY OF THE CABINET, AND OF COURSE IT WASN’T A SURPRISE TO ME BECAUSE AS I

SAID THE MAYORS HAVE BEEN — AND THE PEOPLE OF PICKERING AND MANY ON COUNCIL HAD BEEN ADVOCATING FOR YEARS, WELL BEFORE MY TIME AS WELL. >> [INDISCERNIBLE] >> I SUPPORT THE GOVERNMENT AND I SUPPORT THE INITIATIVE TO BUILD AT LEAST 50,000 HOMES ON THE GREENBELT. I SUPPORT THAT WE’VE GOT TO

BUILD A MINIMUM OF A MILLION AND A HALF HOMES. AND I AM CONCERNED BECAUSE IF WE DON’T GET THAT DONE, WE’RE GOING TO — IT’S GOING TO PUT PRESSURT PRESSURE ON A RANGE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, HOMELESSNESS. WE’VE GOT REFUGEES COMING TO THIS PROVINCE. WE’VE BEEN THERE TO SUPPORT THAT.

I SAT DOWN WITH THE REGION A.M. CHAIR OF DURHAM ON FRIDAY, AND HE TALKED ABOUT THE CHALLENGES WITH REGARD TO REFUGEES AND PEOPLE COMING TO DURHAM. AND HE’S FOCUSED ON OTTAWA BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE PROVINCE IS THERE, AND WE’VE BEEN SUPPORTING SUPPORTIVE HOUSING, FOR EXAMPLE, IN DURHAM AND RIGHT ACROSS THE PROVINCE.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO CONTINUE TO BUILD HOMES IN THE PROVINCE. >> — CORRECT THE RAILROADED A LITTLE BIT: PICKERING VOTED AGAINST THIS LATEST PLAN. THEY REVERSED THEIR [Inaudible] DURHAM REGION SAID THEY’RE NOT — THEY WEREN’T READY, THEY HAD NO IDEA;ED THIS OTHER COMMITMENTS [INDISCERNIBLE]

COMMITMENTS THAT WILL BEAT THEIR TARGETS, BY THE WAY. THERE’S LAND IN SETON NO ONE IS BUILDING ON YET THAT THEY CAN BUILD INSTEAD. AND PICKERING AGREED TO KEEP THIS LAND AGRICULTURE FOREVER WHEN IT WAS SOLD BACK [Inaudible] AND THEN THEY RENEGED ON T THE IDEA THAT WAS FAKE SCIENCE OR

SOMETHING, THERE WAS ACTUALLY A THREE-PARTY CONSENSUS, A PROCESS THAT TOOK DECADES, AND THAT LAND HAD BEEN EARMARKED FOR AGRICULTURE FOR YEARS. WHY DO YOU JUST NOW JUST DISMISS ALL THAT AND SAY LET’S BUILD HOUSES ON IT? THERE’S LOTS OF PLACES TO BUILD HOUSES. >> AS I SAID THE PREMIER’S

MAYOR, THE CURRENT MAYOR, WERE OBVIOUS VERY SUPPORTIVE AND THEY WERE THE ONES THAT CAME TO THE PUBLIC TO SAY THEY SUPPORTED BUILDING THAT. AND I THINK THE MAYOR MADE A STATEMENT LAST WEEK AND SAID THAT NOW THAT THE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE WE GOTTA MAKE SURE THAT INFRASTRUCTURE IS THERE AND

I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT FOR THE PEOPLE OF PICKERING AND THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE COMMUNITY BENEFITS, WILL BE PAID, BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE SCHOOLS, THE COMMUNITY CENTRES, THE ROADS, ET CETERA, THAT ARE GOING TO BE NECESSARY TO HAVE THE

INFRASTRUCTURE ARE GOING TO BE PAID BY THOSE SAME DEVELOPERS AND THEY’LL WORK WITH THE INDEPENDENT PROVINCIAL LANDFALL TORE AND THE CITY, THE CURRENT COUNCIL, THE CURRENT MAYOR, TO GET THAT DONE. >> YOU’RE SAYING THAT THE $6 BILLION IN LAND [INDISCERNIBLE] THAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, ACCORDING TO THE AUDITOR GENERAL, NOT MY

NUMBERS, THAT THAT’S GOING TO BE PAID BACK TO TAXPAYERS; THAT ACTUALLY IS MONEY THAT REALLY SHOULD BE THE TAXPAYERS’ MONEY. THIS IS LAND THAT WAS SOLD BACK ON THE CONDITIONS THAT IT STAY FARMS AT THAT PRICE, AND NOW IT’S BEEN MAGICALLY TURNED INTO DEVELOPABLE LAND AND ALL THAT

MONEY IS GOING TO SOMEONE ELSE. SO YOU’RE SAYING THAT THAT PROCESS, WHICH BY THE WAY WE DON’T HAVE ANY NUMBERS; IT’S ALL BEHIND CLOSED DOORS — YOU’RE SAYING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE DEVELOPERS WILL PUT INTO THE INFRASTRUCTURE WILL PAY US BACK FOR THAT $6 BILLION? >> PRIVATE INTEREST WHO ARE

GOING TO DEVELOP THOSE HOMES ARE GOING TO PAY FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE THERE. THAT’S ABSOLUTELY A CONDITION OF IT. >> [Inaudible] >> WELL, CERTAINLY BILLIONS. I DON’T KNOW HOW MUCH. THEY GOTTA PAY FOR THE — >> HOW MUCH, HOW CAN WE EVALUAT- >> THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THE COST OF THE BUILDING.

ONE STEP AT A TIME. WE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT AS PART OF THE PUTTING THOSE LANDS OUT OF THE GREENBELT THAT THERE HAS TO BE A COMMITMENT TO PAY FOR THAT INFRASTRUCTURE. AND WE’VE ALSO MADE IT CLEAR THAT IF THEY DON’T GET IT DONE — START THE PROCESS AND

GET SHOVELS IN THE GROUND BY 2025, THEN THERE WILL BE A PROCESS TO PUT THOSE LANDS BACK INTO THE GREENBELT. >> YOU’RE PROTECTING A DEFICIT, AGAIN, CHANGE FROM THE BUDGET. SEEMS LIKE EVERY TIME YOU PUT A NUMBER OUT THERE, THE FAO SAYS NO, THAT’S NOT RIGHT, IT’S NOT NEARLY AS BAD AS THAT.

WE’VE DONE THE [INDISCERNIBLE] VERY RECENTLY WHERE THEY FOUND A FLUS IN ’24. IS — A SURPLUS IN ’24. IS EVERYTHING WORKING OKAY AT THE FAO, ARE THEY FULFILLING THEIR MANDATE TO PROVIDING TRANSPARENCY OR ARE THEY MISLEADING? DOES SOMETHING NEED TO CHANGE? >> THEY USE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT METHODOLOGY, ONE THAT

WE CAN’T — THAT’S THEIR METHODOLOGY THAT THEY USED UNAUDITED NUMBERS, UNCONSOLIDATED NUMBERS. THEY DON’T INCLUDE SCHOOLS AND SCHOOL BOARDS OR COLLEGES OR HOSPITALS IN THEIR NUMBERS. THOSE NUMBERS, FOR EXAMPLE, WERE DONE IN APRIL. THERE’S A LOT OF POST-YEAR-END TRANSACTIONS THAT ARE DONE. THOSE ALL COME OUT IN THE AUDITED STATEMENT AND THOSE

AUDITED STATEMENTS ARE DUE BY THE END OF SEPTEMBER SO I’LL BE UP IN FRONT OF YOU AGAIN TO BE — TO ADDRESS THE SPECIFIC NUMBERS

Ontario Finance Minister Peter Bethlenfalvy was questioned over Greenbelt development – some of it occurring in his riding.

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