Donald Trump could face a 4th indictment as grand jury begins hearing evidence

State prosecutors began making their case to a Georgia grand jury today potentially leading to charges against Donald Trump surrounding the aftermath of the 2020 presidential election results in Georgia a document two pages seemingly outlining the charges appeared briefly on the Court’s website and then was removed any charge would be the

Culmination of a two-year investigation that began with the now Infamous audio tape apparently of Donald Trump lobbying for changes to the Georgia count we’re going to talk about what is happening in Georgia what this may be leading to Gwen Keys Fleming is with me this morning

This is she is the former sorry Gwen not this morning I normally work in the morning shift and my clock is backwards it is afternoon and evening but you are Gwen and you are the former district attorney in DeKalb County in Georgia welcome to power and politics I’m happy to meet you here

Thank you thank you for having me can you just to help us maybe get some insight into what happened earlier this afternoon as I mentioned that document went up on the website then it was taken down Reuters did report on it but what do you make of it and the potential

Impact of it well I think we won’t know really what happened until we see any final indictment document if there is one ultimately but I will say that at least in my office when I was the district attorney we would very often create a calendar for the grand jury it was an

Internal document solely for the da staff so that Witnesses would know when uh they needed to appear so that the assistant District Attorneys could organize their day about when they needed to present particularly some of the more complex cases so there is a possibility that this might have been an

Internal document that just simply listed some charges that the D.A was thinking about as she uh is presenting evidence to the grand jury which I believe we all know is happening today so it could be very similar to what we might see or it could be fictitious the

Way I believe the clerk’s office has labeled it in their most latest report exactly we got that statement and that exact worked fictitious later in the day but as you suggest we do know the prosecutors began to present to that grand jury today help us understand at this point in the process what’s

Involved at this stage sure so the grand jury is a group of up to 23 citizens uh 23 residents of the county they will ultimately hear evidence from Witnesses hearsay is allowed uh the defendant or any defendant is not allowed in the grand jury uh the D.A will present various

Witnesses to testify about elements of whatever crimes she believes she has sufficient evidence to prove so in this particular case it could be things like a RICO indictment it could be things like false statements all of which are on or it could be forgery or solicitation to commit any of these

Crimes all of which are under title 16 uh the crime section of the Georgia Code it could also include charges such as a conspiracy to commit election fraud or interference with elections those are all crimes under title 21 of the elections code so whatever crimes the D.A believes she has sufficient evidence

For she will list them in a piece of paper called an indictment or a draft indictment those witnesses will testify under oath the grand jurors have the opportunity to ask questions and the case will progress until the grand jury is satisfied that it has enough information to make a decision as

Long as there are 16 folks in the room they have a quorum and they can move to vote on whether they believe there’s probable cause or sufficient evidence for the case to go forward they only need 12 of the 16 or the majority uh to go forward with official and official

Indictment if the grand jurors do not believe that there’s sufficient evidence of a particular crime they would vote no which then is what’s called a no bill meaning there is not enough evidence to go forward with that particular charge if they do believe believe there is

Enough evidence and do vote to go ahead with indictments what would the time frame then how soon thereafter would we expect to see charges officially announced so the routine process is in in a normal case and again we’re not necessarily dealing with with uh normal here this is

Sort of a presidential matter but the the they would still follow uh presumably the normal course which is once the grand jury makes its vote they will take the document it will be uh sealed or put in an envelope and delivered by a sheriff to a presiding

Judge who would then quote unquote read the indictment it’s not actually reading it out loud but it’s presented it needs to be presented in open court where it is stamped by the clerk and at that point it becomes an official court document usually soon after that or contemporaneously with that the case is

Then assigned to a judge and then we move forward with the normal course of a criminal matter including arraignment the opportunity for pre-trial motions uh I think in this case we will see the D.A make an Outreach to some of the defense attorneys that are known to have represented different Witnesses or

Targets in the past they will no doubt make arrangements for any Targets or potential defendants to turn themselves in make arrangements for bail and then ultimately we’ll see when and if an arraignment date is set you mentioned the district attorney from neighboring Fulton County it is funny Willis I’m

Wondering it sounds like we’re going to be hearing and getting to know her a lot over the days and weeks to come what do you know of her what should we know of her so she first of all is the consummate professional she’s been a prosecutor for several decades she’s handled several

High-profile cases including very complex Rico cases similar to the one uh that many are speculating this case uh may turn out to be uh she is someone who adheres to their her oath she is obviously earned the trust and respect of the residents of Fulton County who

Voted her into office uh and so she’s taking that oath seriously and will follow it in terms of not uh letting distractions or other matters deter her from going wherever the evidence leads her and that is what we’re seeing she’s taken now two years to really deliberately evaluate that evidence the

Special grand jury which was an investigative grand jury heard from 75 Witnesses over the coerce of just under a year and now Miss Willis or D.A Willis has the opportunity to take that evidence those recommendations along with the evidence presented by witnesses that we presume are testifying in front

Of the grand jury now and move forward with the case in a way that again hopefully within the next 24 hours or less we may know what that grand jury is ultimately decided you’ve mentioned on a couple of occasions George’s Rica law and this could be under the indictment

To Rico charges and we’ve talked about that on this program actually last week but I’d like your perspective on this Rico standing for racketeer influenced and corrupt organizations act it was legislation meant to look after into and to investigate criminal organizations I’m wondering how you see it working in

This context and whether you think it would be the appropriate use of the law so the RICO statute in Georgia is a really great tool for prosecutors who have complex matters that involve different individuals who have done different activities all in furtherance of a common goal or uh and have used

What they call a pattern of racketeering activity which is really just simply anyone or any two of these statutes that are listed as predicate crimes and so it for this particular matter it includes crimes such as forgery in terms of the if she chooses to pursue charges for the fake elector scheme

It includes false statements it includes false swearing all of these it includes uh Criminal Trespass or the solicitation of any of these crimes and so using the Ricoh statute could be an appropriate use if the D.A decides that she has multiple defendants but they are all

Connected by a common story to hold on to or maintain an Enterprise and use the pattern of racketeering activity or several of the underlying predicate crimes to be able to maintain that control Gwen Keys Fleming thank you so much for sharing your important insight as we

Begin what could be a very eventful week thanks so much

A Georgia grand jury began hearing evidence on Monday into Donald Trump’s efforts to overturn the state’s 2020 election outcome, which could potentially lead to a fourth criminal indictment against the former U.S. president.

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